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BOI: In terms of production houses, you are the new kid on the block. How was Phantom Films conceived?
Vikas Bahl (VB): I had the urge to do something on my own. Madhu (Mantena) was already the most prolific independent producer and Anurag (Kashyap) was thinking about launching a directors’ company. I was talking to Anurag and Madhu separately on what we could do when I realised that all of us had something common. Then I realised that Madhu and Anurag had already known each other for a long time.
The three of us met and we asked Vikram (Vikramaditya Motwane) and a few other people what they thought of the idea. We thought it would be great to have both perspectives – a director’s perspective as well as that of a producer. At the time, Anurag and I were both producing and we agreed that if we pooled our ideas and perspectives, we could probably get a company going.
But it was also important for us to be on the same wavelength and to be in it for the long haul. In the end, it was the four of us who remained.
BOI: What does Phantom Films stand for and what kind of films do you want to make?
Vikramaditya Motwane (VM): All kinds of films… and we are already doing that. Starting with Lootera to something like Bombay Velvet to a Hasee Toh Phasee. We have a massive range; from a rom-com to a coming-of-age film to a period drama. It’s everything and more.
VB: The idea is not to restrict but to enable. If there is someone who wants to tell a story and if the story is interesting for that person to tell, then we would support that person. As such, there is no ‘Phantom way’ of working. Our primary objective is to identify talent and to find the best way to support that talent.
BOI: Are you open to making something like a Rowdy Rathore or a Bol Bachchan?
VB: We are very script-driven. If a Rowdy Rathore comes with an excellent script, we would be very open to doing it. The most important parameters are script and director. Of course, each of the four of us has different sensibilities and that’s a strength, whether it is making an Udaan or a Ghajini. But what drives us is the director and the content.
BOI: But Madhu is a very commercial filmmaker whereas you Vikas, VikramImage may be NSFW.
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and Anurag make cinema of a different kind.
Madhu Mantena (MM): That’s not true. The scripts that Vikram and Vikas green-light are more commercial than the ones that I okay. ‘Commercial’ is a very vague term. I don’t know whether Ghajini and Rowdy Rathore constitute commercial cinema. Of course, Ghajini was commercial because it had Aamir Khan. But if you made the same movie with a new person, I think people might have looked at the film very differently. A film like Kahaani was able to get the kind of numbers it did but I am not sure you could call Kahaani a ‘commercial’ film, nor No One Killed Jessica nor our next release Queen or Bombay Velvet. What exactly do you mean by ‘commercial’?
VB: I believe commercial refers to return on money invested. So, to me, Udaan was commercial when I was producing it or Vikram was directing it because it was made on that budget, or Dev D, for that matter. For me, if a film is made on a budget of Rs 90 crore and earns Rs 100 crore, it is non-commercial. It all depends on how you define commercial but we all want box office success. We all want our films to reach out to more people. But we would not compromise on content to achieve box office success. If that makes our journey longer, we are okay with that.
For instance, Anurag is in a place where his Gangs Of Wasseypur earned Rs 60 crore but he didn’t give up on his vision. That’s why, today, he has a Rs 60-crore audience base that will watch his films. He has worked hard to earn a loyal following. But he took the tough route and spent a decade to cultivate this audience.
So, the long and short of it is, we won’t compromise on content simply to clock huge numbers but we want content that will reach out to people as well.
BOI: So the idea is to make money and also be proud of the product.
VB: And to be consistent. Content is the only thing we can work on over the next 20, 25 years. Take, for instance, a scenario where we make a film that we don’t really believe in but that gets the box office numbers. The problem is, we wouldn’t know how to repeat those numbers because we were flying blind. Since we wouldn’t know why the project worked, we wouldn’t be able to repeat its success. But if we believe in something, we would know how to improve on it so that we get it right every single time. We want to last rather than make a quick buck.
BOI: The four of you are partners. How have you carved up you responsibilities?
VB: I don’t do anything.
VM: Neither do I. (Laughs)
Ranjan Singh (RS): Since the three of them are directors, they look after their own films.Image may be NSFW.
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Vikas looks after the production of some other films too. He looks after the marketing, creative aspects, all the units. Vikram looks after scripts, picking up new scripts and developing of scripts. Madhu, of course, looks after our finances and budgets and all the legal issues these guys create. And Anurag, apart from producing his own films, is also looking out for talent.
VB: Our responsibilities play to our individual strengths but the important thing is that everyone takes everything forward.
MM: The beauty about Phantom is that everyone is very collaborative. The environment in our studio is such that each one helps the other when necessary. When someone is directing and needs some help, the others jump in; and if someone is writing dialogue, the others help out. This collaborative approach is very rare in our industry. But, at Phantom, we are like-minded and respect each other’s work. And no one is insecure or afraid.
VB: We are very scared but not afraid. (Laughs)
MM: It is but natural to be afraid.
VB: Yeah, I mean, Vikram probably showed Lootera to a hundred people but it was only to get the best feedback to ensure that we were able to put the best film out on that Friday, rather than putting it out on a Friday like a cowboy and later figuring out what went wrong with the film.
BOI: What is Phantom Films’ business model? You have different business partners for different films, like Balaji for Lootera, Viacom18 for Queen and Fox Star for Bombay Velvet.
MM: We are a production company and we are constantly working with studios, so we don’t have a distribution team. We also believe in working with like-minded people on our projects. So, for instance, Viacom18 has been very passionate about Queen, and that’s why they are our partner on this film.
As for Lootera, Ekta (Kapoor) approached us and said she wanted to be a part of anything we were doing. It was coincidental that someone had expressed their passion for working with us. Besides, all these people are producers as well. So we are looking for like-minded people for a particular story. So let’s say Viacom identified with a film like Queen but Ekta didn’t. So she decided to partner with Lootera instead. So you could say we develop projects and find partners for them.
BOI: Does that make Phantom Films largely a content provider?Image may be NSFW.
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MM: We are not a content provider. There are certain strengths we have and certain strengths that Viacom18 or Balaji or Fox Star has. For instance, we really like Ekta’s aggressive promotion and we liked the aggression she invested in the film. On the other hand, Viacom18 is very good at marketing and distribution, so we know they will take our film Queen and make it viable since it is also one of our most commercial films.
The economics of filmmaking is changing. So, Phantom will get the same response from every studio; it will not vary much. But we are also trying to push our stories. Sometimes, we try to get bigger-budget stories. Every filmmaker goes through that struggle, right? We always try to sell bigger-budget films. So sometimes, budgets come into play and sometimes, it’s content.
BOI: Do you plan to remain in the content creation and production space or do you also plan to foray into distribution?
MM: No. We are involved in content creation and marketing. Marketing is a big part of Phantom and one of our key strengths. We have Ranjan handling marketing and Vikas too, in association with a studio. We are proud to associate with other companies so seamlessly.